jambutty

The answer may seem to be obvious at first glance because if a site has stopped paying, doesn’t answer emails and is down it must be a Scam – right? Er! No!

We have to have time factors thrown in.

I would suggest that if a site is 48 hours late in paying there is a huge question mark over it.

I would suggest that if a site is 48 hours late in answering an email there is a huge question mark over it? That’s up to 4 days now.

Yup, you’ve guessed it! A site that has been down without explanation for 48 hours also has a huge question mark over it.

Three huge question marks and it is a Scam.

So I would suggest that after 4 days of not paying it is a Scam.

OK! Boys and girls, show me where I go wrong.

menghua84

which site u r refering to jambutty?? for me... not answering an email within 24hours there's a huge question mark on it already...

peterg

Normally you would be absolutely correct, Jambutty, but recently there have been 2 hyips that have come back from the dead, making the exceptions to your rule..

The first was the Tatijano group after an absence of 2 months
The second, of course, is GFT, just back today after - 18 days ?

Both alive and kicking...

So really, the only thing that you can predict is that they are unpredictable..

jambutty

Not one specific site menghua84 but sites in general.

I’m trying to establish a norm for when we can reasonably declare a site a scam. I’m trying to avoid people yelling scam when their expected payment is just a couple of hours late.

If a site is paying, then not answering an email within 24 hours it doesn’t mean much except possibly bad manners.

Ah! Yes! peterg, the exceptions. Realistically no one expected GFT to come back or Tatijano but it is only two out of hundreds. I know of no other sites that have come back to carry on after being off for two or three weeks. Incidentally I make GFT off for 18 days.

I would sooner place a bet on a site being a scam after four days not paying etc than placing the same bet on a site that has been up and running for 6 to 8 months being there for the next month.

But it is the unpredictability of HYIP’s that make it such a challenge.

peterg

OK, Jambutty
Forgetting the exceptions to the rule.... and the Admins that keep in touch just to make us linger on in our misery with false hopes.....

I would vote 5 days. No pay, No contact. SCAM ! Ignore the fact that the website may still be up and running, reaping ill gotten gains from unsuspecting hyipers unfortunate enough not to be members of this informative forum.

billynibbles

Just my two cents. Surely, to be able to label a site (or any other undertaking) a SCAM , you have to be sure that the organisers had intended all along to make money dishonestly from the enterprise. Banks have been known to collapse, sometimes spectacularly, but no-one suggests they were a scam all along.

Perhaps we overlook sheer incompetance on the part of the site owner when we shout 'scam'.

jambutty

Good two cents worth Chris and in the true sense of the word you are dead right but it will be an impossible point to establish.

We can only view things from our own perspective and if we invest in a site and it disappears, from our viewpoint we wuz robbed even if we were in profit when it went. Why it went down isn’t really relevant to us.

You can blame coach for opening this can of worms, although to be fair to him it is a point that needs to be clarified as much as is possible

coach

I prefer to think of it as opening useful dialogue.

Using four or five or six days to proclaim a program a scam probably doesn't make much difference. However, as peterg pointed out, the website may still be up and continuing their SCAM. So, it's important to announce as soon as possible when a program stops paying (don't you hate it when those rating sites continue to show paying after payments have stopped?). Would announcements or posts of non-payment be made in this section or another? If a scam... I mean... program, starts paying again, another announcement can be made.

peterg

Yes, coach, that's what normally happens when a program stops paying, one or more members will post it - either here or in General Talk - almost immediately. It will probably be raised as a 'scam warning' in this section on the second day of non payment, to stop any further investment while we try to find out what is going on.

However, Jambutty's point is WHEN do we label it a SCAM - we don't like to shout too soon, because that would kill a good program that was just having server problems or something similar, but of course we also want to shout SCAM loud and clear AS SOON AS POSSIBLE when we think someone is running off with our money!

As an example of a reversal, GFT stopped paying and communicating, so it got to this folder. Most had accepted that it was a scam - but then it came back up again! So we all stopped and locked the scam thread, returning to the 'I have been paid' section full of praise and plaudits - and relief!